Possible bug reason and quick fix for application hang on start

Post questions and find answers on Cubasis 3 for Android here.
Post Reply
DennisLange
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:00 pm
Contact:

Possible bug reason and quick fix for application hang on start

Post by DennisLange »

Hey guys,

within the last days I was able to test Cubasis 3 on my two Android devices. The first one is a Huawei Media Pad M5, and the second one is a Huawei Mate 10 pro.

Basically, both devices run Cubasis with a little tweak of the "Engine Buffering" setting (>40ms seems to be a good value for me to be able to work witch 10 or more tracks)

However, after creating a project with more instruments than in the "Init" template, the application did not start anymore. The only thning that worked was the hint of Lars to rename the project folder and the project name.

The reason why we have to change the project folder as well is, that someone thought it would be a good idea to link the project name with the folder to make programming easier, which is, bad for the users, because if we only rename one part (folder or project name) we are able to load Cubasis, but not the project, because the names are different and therefore the project cannot be found. Changing both to the same name (project name and folder) resolves this, but if we load the project again, close Cubasis and open it again, the problem is, well, back again...

After some tests with the Cubasis instruments, I found out, that this only happens (in my case), if I add an instance of "Micrologue" to the project. If none of the instruments is a Micrologue instance, I can open and close Cubasis without any problem. No matter how many instances of other instruments are running.

To get a little bit more information about this, I tried to change additional settings like "bit depth", "studio quality" and other settings, but none of these seem to change the behavior.

Right now I think that it has to do with the initialization sequence of Cubasis. As soon as the project has been renamed and Cubasis loads an "empty" project, I can switch to my old project and work with it.

So what would be my quick fix for this? Well I think if you add an additional checkbox to the project settings which can be used to disable the "auto load function" would solve the problem until you found the reason for it.

Please let me know what you think.

Edit: If you (Cubasis users) want a quick workaround for this problem please try the following steps.
1. Create a new Project by klicking "Media" -> "New Project"
2. Make sure that no Micrologue Instrument is on a Track
3. Select this new, empty project every time before you close the app
4. After starting the app, load your project as usual
5. Before closing the app, ALWAYS change to the empty project
For me, this helped

Regards,
Dennis

User avatar
LSlowak
Steinberg Employee
Posts: 4179
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:36 pm
Contact:

Re: Possible bug reason and quick fix for application hang on start

Post by LSlowak »

Hi Dennis,

Thank you for your message and sorry for my late reply.
Shared your topic with our engineering, to further discuss the general topic.

Best,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
Check out Steinberg on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook

DennisLange
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Possible bug reason and quick fix for application hang on start

Post by DennisLange »

Hello bugSteinberg,

this is really the worst, I mean REALLY, the worst experience I ever had in my whole life as software engineer....

Maybe you should create a new slogan for your company. “Steinberg, where you journey begins, and your normal life ends”.

I mean, ARE YOU SERIOUS?

I was so happy to read about version 3.1.2 and all the bug fixes, until I’ve installed the new version.

I hoped that this problem has solved, or, yeah just a little workaround for it but nope, it still does not work at all. Instead of making it better, you’ve killed my MIDI driver. Yes, it is no longer usable, as long as Cubasis is installed. I’ve tried many different things to get it back alive. For example, restart the Tablet, stop the Cubasis app, reset a few other things in Android but nothing helped. The only way to get it working again was to UNINSTALL Cubasis and make another restart.

Installing Cubasis again, well, killed my MIDI driver, AGAIN.

What about making real bug fixes before sending us mails about special offers for all the great products, ehm bugducts you have. Yes you can send me a special offer for a product I already own and all the great additions which, well, I can’t use at all.

I know it is a common method nowadays to get as much money as possible without doing a sh… for it, as long as it looks good. I mean, even if we point with a finger on a reason, you don’t fix it, instead you make it worse and offer new features like “Now you can choose the input for recording”. Yeah, this is what we need…

I also know that project managers or product managers (or however they are called, this changes from time to time) are sitting behind the programmers and force them to implement new useless ideas like machine learning and they also want a super duper user interface, no matter what it costs, but the functionality is secondary. I can feel the rolling eyes of the implementers. One thing that burned into my brain was “we don’t need it to work 100%, 80% is ok”. Really? If your car, your TV or your bicycle is working only to a maximum of 80%, wouldn’t you send it back? Think about it.

Maybe you should tell them as well that there are some rules like KISS (keep it simple stupid), or “add things only if needed” which are essential if you want to create a GOOD product. Everything else is just waste of time.
By the way, there is a point in software engineering where you can throw everything away and create it from scratch if you don’t stop implementing new things before at least most bugs are solved. This behavior will never change, even if you believe in Santa Clause.

If this would be the first Steinberg product I bought it might be not so bad, but my experiences with Cubase, which destroyed many of my projects FOREVER, or the UR44c interface, which is causing noise over USB-C, “if I scroll with my mouse wheel” (only if USB is connected), are somewhat, somewhat, somewhat annoying and make me really angry by now.

Just a little hint for the original topic. There is one thing that waits for another thing to be loaded, this is the reason why it does not start. Maybe you should check synchronous vs asynchronous operations in that queue, because it does not crash, it just waits… forever.
And this finally was my journey with bugSteinberg.

Thank you so much for wasting so much of my time within the last years. I’m done with you.

Bye

User avatar
LSlowak
Steinberg Employee
Posts: 4179
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:36 pm
Contact:

Re: Possible bug reason and quick fix for application hang on start

Post by LSlowak »

I was so happy to read about version 3.1.2 and all the bug fixes, until I’ve installed the new version.

I hoped that this problem has solved, or, yeah just a little workaround for it but nope, it still does not work at all. Instead of making it better, you’ve killed my MIDI driver. Yes, it is no longer usable, as long as Cubasis is installed. I’ve tried many different things to get it back alive. For example, restart the Tablet, stop the Cubasis app, reset a few other things in Android but nothing helped. The only way to get it working again was to UNINSTALL Cubasis and make another restart.

Installing Cubasis again, well, killed my MIDI driver, AGAIN.
Hi DennisLange,

Thank you for your message.
We try our best to release Cubasis maintenance updates, in resolving user-reported issues.

Regarding your topic, we've been under the impression, that we fixed this bug as well.
Apparently this seems not to be the case, but we can’t reproduce it.

If possible, please send us your project and step description (e.g. via Dropbox, download link via PM), to allow our engineers to re-evaluate the problem.

Thank you and stay well,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
Check out Steinberg on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook

DennisLange
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Possible bug reason and quick fix for application hang on start

Post by DennisLange »

Hello Lars,
Regarding your topic, we've been under the impression, that we fixed this bug as well.
Apparently this seems not to be the case, but we can’t reproduce it.
Ok, which one do you mean?

For the application hang on start I already wrote what I did, but ok, again.
1. I've created a new empty project
2. added a MIDI track (does not matter if i add MIDI data or not)
3. change the instrument to Micrologue (does not matter if it is the init preset or a different one)
4. Close Cubasis
5. Start Cubasis
6. Cubasis waits in an endless loop on the splash screen (who needs splash screens? anyways)

As already mentioned, it really does not matter at what time I add the Micrologue, and it also does not matter on which track it is. As soon as it has been added to the project, it will no longer start.

The MIDI driver problem:
Updated to Cubasis 3.1.2, started Cubasis, tried MIDI input (I can change the connected device to "MIDI input") no input from my devices (none is working anymore, Roland FP30, Korg Triton Taktile 49, AKAI MPKmini, X-Drum digital drums)
Closed Cubasis, restarted my Huawei Media Pad M5 a few times, no changes.
Tried MIDI input on other apps, no longer working.
Stopped Cubasis in the app manager, not working.
Cleared caches, reset data, not working.
Removed Cubasis completely, not working.
Restarted the Tablet, MIDI works again on all my other apps.
Installed Cubasis 3.1.2, no more MIDI input possible.

Tried the same on my Phone, same effect.

To me it looks like it is "reserving" the MIDI device and never frees it. Maybe there is a service running in the background which takes the device driver and "blocks" all input. I don't believe that it is really "blocking", maybe just sending it to "somewhere" in the android universe.

I don't use Dropbox, Google Drive or any cloud based service, therefore I could only send it by mail, but after all this I was really pi.. off and deleted anything on my tablet related to Cubasis.

I mostly use(d) it to create new ideas for my songs "on the road" or lets better say, "wanted". Unfortunately the "pads" input had a delay of a few hundred milliseconds (which was one of the main reasons I wanted this software) as mentioned in a different post also on other tablets and the MIDI editor is not really intuitive (I can't change the length of a note without switching every time to the selection tool). The glue tool seems to work better now, but every time something is glued, the tool is magically deselected. Also I have to glue midi parts every single time I record a new part "on top", which can't be changed (or I just did not find the menu to change this).

Maybe it's my device, maybe I'm just stupid, but I don't think so.

I also do not understand why the interface has been partially swapped in comparison to the original Cubase design. Transport bar, add Track etc. (I know that this is something that I could see in the videos and screenshots, but at the time I bought it I was so happy to have a mobile version, that I’ve just ignored it). However, I’m really unsure why every company makes different designs on different devices (I mean mobile and desktop), throw away some of the proven UI concepts and let the customers search for the functions.

I know that it is not easy to implement a desktop design to a mobile device because of space, performance and other reasons, but normally it should be at least, either close to the desktop (I know most parts are, but not the things you use many times), or to mobile proven design patterns.

Well, I could continue pointing to the many, many workflow differences between the desktop and mobile version, but I think this might be the wrong place for it.

Dennis

User avatar
LSlowak
Steinberg Employee
Posts: 4179
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:36 pm
Contact:

Re: Possible bug reason and quick fix for application hang on start

Post by LSlowak »

Hi Dennis,

Our engineers gave your issue another closer look, trying to reproduce the issues with a Huawei MediaPad T5, which is the closest to the M5 that we have in our arsenal.

Creating a new project, adding a Micrologue track and restarting Cubasis works fine.
They were unable to reproduce the endless loop in the launch screen.

If you’re able to create a project that causes the endless loop, please send it to us (e.g. Dropbox, download link via PM).

MIDI input via iRig Keys works fine with Cubasis 3.1.2 other apps they've tried afterwards.
Could it be that another app is causing this MIDI blocking, possibly one that was updated around the time when you updated to Cubasis 3.1.2?

Regarding the latency of over 100ms, this is what they've observed with many Huawei devices, sadly, regardless of the app.
Other manufacturers seem to be able to provide way better audio latency.

Best wishes,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
Check out Steinberg on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook

DennisLange
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Possible bug reason and quick fix for application hang on start

Post by DennisLange »

Hello Lars,

Within the last days I was investigating the problems in more detail.

My Media Pad M5 was running EMUI version 9.0.0.something_with_22_at_the_end which was my preferred Android version 9.0, because 9.1 has many changes in the user interface which I really hate (keyboard, autoturn feature does not work well on tablets etc.). I don’t care about security updates because this device is basically for music creation, piano lessons, some YouTube stuff etc.

However, after updating it to 9.1.0.335, which is the latest version for the Media Pad M5 and is running Android version 9.1.0, I did a complete factory reset, removed all useless junk from the device and installed only Cubasis 3.1.2.

Now, I finally can create a project with a Micrologue instance. I can close Cubasis and open it without any problem.

You might think “yeah it’s working”, but NO, it does not!

I was playing around with the demo projects, opened the “Smear” project, works fine, until I close Cubasis and want to open it again. It looked like that it has the same behavior as before, because it was hanging at the splash screen and the difference to the previous problem is that it is not waiting, it is really hanging. You know the little basket icon in the app switcher right? If I press it, it frees some memory, but does not close the app at all. Only if I swipe the app away (which is similar to “force stop” in the app settings menu) it finally closes Cubasis.

After this I thought, hey lets update the Huawei Mate 10 Pro from EMUI 9.1.0.345 (higher basic version then the Media Pad has now) to EMUI 10.0.0159 (Andriod 10), maybe this works better. Nope, in this case I still cannot even add a Micrologue instance.

This is so annoying guys…

Now I have two devices with the most ugly and user unfriendly Andriod/EMUI versions. Thanks for that.

However, I cannot stop until I get at least one thing working, so I switched over to the MIDI problem.
Could it be that another app is causing this MIDI blocking, possibly one that was updated around the time when you updated to Cubasis 3.1.2?
I did not update any software since I’ve installed Cubasis 3.1.1, therefore this was not the reason, but, yes, a different program can be the problem.

The most used program on this device was Synthesia for piano lessons so I installed it again and played around with different settings. It seems that the problem occurs more often, if I use the Synthesia Build-In USB MIDI driver instead of the default Android MIDI driver. If I use the Android MIDI driver I am able to use both programs, but only if I force a stop of the other program before using it, and sometimes I have to turn off and on the power supply of my MIDI devices. Maybe there is a MIDI reset signal missing, I don’t know.

So in this case I really have to apologize, because right now I am not able to put the blame on Cubasis alone. So why did the problem start with the update to Cubasis 3.1.2? I have no clue at all… What MIDI driver do you use? Self made? Android or universal?

Next on my list was the input latency problem with the pads in Cubasis. I finally got rid of it by removing all other programs on the device except of email, photo, music, keyboard, chrome and play store and by disabling every single Andriod service which not necessarily needs to be enabled. So this device is now as flat as it can be and the latency is now far below 50 milliseconds.

But let’s be honest, this is not a good approach, right now Cubasis costs me about 500€, because now I can’t use my tablet for other things and if I calculate what I have lost because I did not work in the meantime, we are far above 2000€. (Yes, good software engineers are expensive, but we are worth it)

I am also pretty sure that this is not related to the Huawei devices because if I used a different program like one of the many MCP, or other beat making programs, I did not “feel” any latency in the past.

So what’s next? Well I’m not going to invest more time into this program. I think I already spend too much time to figure out what YOU Steinberg (not you Lars) missed to test out before releasing this software. My advice, get a few of the most problematic devices and test it yourself instead of transferring your job to the customers.

Oh before I forget it, the UR44C works with Cubasis, but only if the power supply is connected and only as audio output (no recording).

This is the end, have a good life, stay healthy and (at least) try to be nice,
Dennis

uriukti
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:03 am
Contact:

Re: Possible bug reason and quick fix for application hang on start

Post by uriukti »

Good day. I am having the same problem. Where can I send files for verification?

User avatar
LSlowak
Steinberg Employee
Posts: 4179
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:36 pm
Contact:

Re: Possible bug reason and quick fix for application hang on start

Post by LSlowak »

uriukti wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:06 am
Good day. I am having the same problem. Where can I send files for verification?
Hi uriukit,

What problem do you have exactly?
If possible, please let us have a short report using our form below.

Thanks
Lars

Reporting Form (Feature Requests / Issues)

1. Summary/Title
(Provide a short but descriptive sentence that summaries the issue or feature request)

2. Description
(Provide a detailed description and list the step by step process to reproduce the issue to help the team to understand and reproduce the problem)

3. Expected Results
(Describe what you expected to see)

4. Actual Results
(Describe what you actually saw)

5. Environment
(Count the hardware and software including version numbers being used)
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
Check out Steinberg on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook

uriukti
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:03 am
Contact:

Re: Possible bug reason and quick fix for application hang on start

Post by uriukti »

1. The program hangs on opening. Eternal loading.

2. If the Micrologue tool is added to the project, the project will not allow the program to open. The program freezes on reopening.

3. I expect that I will open the program and it will open and the last project will open.

4. What was described in paragraph 3 does not happen. I am running the program. And it freezes when i open it.

5. Android 10 system realme X2 smartphone Cubasis 3.1.2 version

I can give you files of error project.

uriukti
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:03 am
Contact:

Re: Possible bug reason and quick fix for application hang on start

Post by uriukti »

I just wanted to help. Tell me at least when a new update ...

User avatar
LSlowak
Steinberg Employee
Posts: 4179
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:36 pm
Contact:

Re: Possible bug reason and quick fix for application hang on start

Post by LSlowak »

Hi uriukti,

Sorry for my late reply!

Please try if renaming the project helps to solve the problem:

- Using any File Manager app, navigate to Cubasis 3/Projects folder
- Rename the project folder (.cbp) to something else (e.g. "a.cbp" to "a2.cbp")
- Navigate into this folder and rename the project file itself to the same name (e.g. "a.cbp" to "a2.cbp")

Please keep me updated!

Sorry again for the late response!

Thanks
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
Check out Steinberg on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook

uriukti
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:03 am
Contact:

Re: Possible bug reason and quick fix for application hang on start

Post by uriukti »

Ok. Thank you. Good luck.

Post Reply

Return to “Cubasis 3 for Android”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests